I am actually genuinely interested to see what kind of strategy the candidates will part-take in. (Remember the McCain camp that used/use to focus in on "out of the mainstream", which is a classic example of FUD.)
Frankly, I could not care less about the debates. No matter what the candidates say, it's going to just be more government, more programs, and less freedom. Screw both of them.
Having to pick between these two jackholes is like being forced to decide whether to be clubbed over the head and have your wallet stolen, or be clubbed over the head for some imagined "offense against society". And then have your wallet stolen anyway as punishment.
@hypocrisy: 3. Get together with people who think like I do, and tell the fools in Washington and the state capitals that we no longer consent to their government. If government is by the consent of the governed, then we should be able to withdraw it, no?
@Bishop Work with the system, not against it. (Representative democracy is a good middlepath) Then if you are really able to make a change is a whole nother story. (In a perfect world, yes.)
@hypocrisy: Representative democracy, like any other democracy, is a sham. It makes the immoral presumption that 51% of the population can tell the other 49% how to live their lives. I fundamentally disagree with the system, which is why I am intending to opt out of it as soon as reasonably possible.
The system is fundamentally flawed and unethical. Why would I want to work with it?
I think you're missing the point. Democracy is inherently flawed. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. It's five guys and two women voting on whether the women should have to "put out". If you believe in Democracy, then the five guys can legitimately "vote" that the women have to strip and spread their legs, and if they don't, they're criminals.
That's democracy in a nutshell. "Majority rule" is fundamentally evil.
@bishop You are a bit naive in your reasoning, pardon me if I step on any toes - but it seem like it to me. I can respect your opinion, but it's just not realistic.
@hypocrisy: You only think this because your public school education has consistently filled your head full of the idea that government is good, that democracy is good, and that the will of the majority must be respected. :)
Modern schools fundamentally exist to foster respect for and obedience to the state. "Education" is secondary. And they have done very well at their primary purpose.
@bishop I agree with your way of thinking, but it is just not practicle in most countries.
Ok, I understand the Michigan Militia type guys in the US, but that would not happen in Europe. And to be honest, I think thats a good thing, but I am not sure.
I would like to have the opportunity to stake my claim for my land as "my land" and "my rules", but things don't go like tha.
If you don't agree with the laws of the country, then you have one option open: and thats leave.
I honestly wish there was an option like yours, but in most countries there is not..(maybe thats why you guys have your gunlaws....)
"Just leave?" Just LEAVE? That kind of thinking makes me angry.
Did Jefferson and Washington just LEAVE when they were angry about King George?
Did Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King just LEAVE when they were angry about how they were treated because of their race?
Did Gandhi just LEAVE when the British were oppressing his people in India?
I absolutely detest the "If you don't like it, you can just leave" attitude. I was FUCKING BORN HERE and I will use whatever means I can, to make this country better. Saying "Just leave" is giving up.
I read the writings of Smith, Paine, and Jefferson, and imagine what a wonderful country this could be without this gang of thugs who call themselves "government". Democracy, though, is inevitably doomed because, as de Tocqueville said, it only lasts until people "learn they can vote themselves largess from the public trough".
Take that away, and people can legitimately flourish.
I guess to elaborate, I am not trying to say that you are "less knowing" at all. My point is that so many people in this world are simply raised to believe that government is good, that it is the provider, and that this is simply the way things should be.
It can be very difficult to get beyond that idea and look at the nature of government and democracy and "majority rule" without the huge mental legacy that has been pounded into our heads for all our lifetimes.
I don't blame you for this, I blame the system that "educated" you. :) I'm sorry if you inferred that I was trying to say you are ignorant or stupid. You at least take an interest in the subject, which is more than most people.
@Bishop: This would not be a question about guilt by association. We all have to criticize our sources, regardless if they are supported by you or "the system". That is the only way, not to be indoctrinated, either way.
39 comments so far
tivo
1 year, 2 months ago by silversurfer
good luck staying awake during the debate
1 year, 2 months ago by overpills
Want to catch it live, and I don't have TIVO - that particular brand isn't on the market here.
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@overpills Noooooo, shush you!! :-P It'll be fun, I am sure. (I am not in it for the lulz)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
fun fun fun. make sure you stash up on coke - the caffeine will keep you up when everything else fails
1 year, 2 months ago by overpills
I am actually genuinely interested to see what kind of strategy the candidates will part-take in. (Remember the McCain camp that used/use to focus in on "out of the mainstream", which is a classic example of FUD.)
Caffeine... YUM! :)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
Usenet? Argh... You mean the usenet? My god... Nerds on the attack ;-P
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
Frankly, I could not care less about the debates. No matter what the candidates say, it's going to just be more government, more programs, and less freedom. Screw both of them.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
Aye, Anarchy in the UK man!
My greatest interest is to see the rhetoric strategy of the two when they are up there.
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@yoggel People still use that? Blasphemy against the church of 2.0 :-( :-)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
Having to pick between these two jackholes is like being forced to decide whether to be clubbed over the head and have your wallet stolen, or be clubbed over the head for some imagined "offense against society". And then have your wallet stolen anyway as punishment.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
I can understand your stance on this (and actually agree to some extent). To me it would be about choosing the "lesser evil".
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
Don't forget: Choosing the "lesser evil" is still choosing evil.
It's like a slave being given the "privilege" of which master is going to beat him for the next four years.
And we're supposed to like it and praise how wonderful "democracy" is?
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
@Bishop You basically have two choices; 1) Work for change best you can 2) Move to a hut in the forest.
@yoggel They scrapped the bin channels here a long time ago :(... haha
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
There is no way I'll be able to stay awake... DAMN YOU MORPHEUS!!! <<superhero pose>>
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
Oh sure, blame the black man! Be warned, black man can fight back
1 year, 2 months ago by edythemighty
I meant that god guy, you know? :(... I do not loathe nor fear the black mamba.
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
You do not fear this?
1 year, 2 months ago by edythemighty
@hypocrisy: 3. Get together with people who think like I do, and tell the fools in Washington and the state capitals that we no longer consent to their government. If government is by the consent of the governed, then we should be able to withdraw it, no?
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
OFF TOPIC :D (haha)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@Bishop Work with the system, not against it. (Representative democracy is a good middlepath) Then if you are really able to make a change is a whole nother story. (In a perfect world, yes.)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
I still use USENET. In fact I have a PAID for account.
And no its not for binaries. The service I use doesn't allow binaries. Nice and clean..
1 year, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
Now where's the fun in that....
1 year, 2 months ago by edythemighty
hehe, it does keep a fair amount of the scum aware.
And I figure, if I really want illegal software, there is always TPB :)
1 year, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
I wish I had time to hang out on usenet...
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@hypocrisy: Representative democracy, like any other democracy, is a sham. It makes the immoral presumption that 51% of the population can tell the other 49% how to live their lives. I fundamentally disagree with the system, which is why I am intending to opt out of it as soon as reasonably possible.
The system is fundamentally flawed and unethical. Why would I want to work with it?
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
If more people would bother to vote, it would be better sure. But you can't blame the method for the participants failing to attend (sic).
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
I think you're missing the point. Democracy is inherently flawed. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. It's five guys and two women voting on whether the women should have to "put out". If you believe in Democracy, then the five guys can legitimately "vote" that the women have to strip and spread their legs, and if they don't, they're criminals.
That's democracy in a nutshell. "Majority rule" is fundamentally evil.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
I am wasting good USENET time on this discussion...:P
1 year, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
I remember hanging out on USENET back in the day.
alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork FTW!
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
@bishop You are a bit naive in your reasoning, pardon me if I step on any toes - but it seem like it to me. I can respect your opinion, but it's just not realistic.
@runningwithbulls Mi scusi :( :)
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@hypocrisy: You only think this because your public school education has consistently filled your head full of the idea that government is good, that democracy is good, and that the will of the majority must be respected. :)
Modern schools fundamentally exist to foster respect for and obedience to the state. "Education" is secondary. And they have done very well at their primary purpose.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
@bishop I agree with your way of thinking, but it is just not practicle in most countries.
Ok, I understand the Michigan Militia type guys in the US, but that would not happen in Europe. And to be honest, I think thats a good thing, but I am not sure.
I would like to have the opportunity to stake my claim for my land as "my land" and "my rules", but things don't go like tha.
If you don't agree with the laws of the country, then you have one option open: and thats leave.
I honestly wish there was an option like yours, but in most countries there is not..(maybe thats why you guys have your gunlaws....)
My 2 cent (Euro :))
1 year, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
@Bishop So now I am less knowing because I don't happen to agree with you?! Way to go...
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
This discussion took a bad turn, thus I am ending it - at least for tonight.
1 year, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
"Just leave?" Just LEAVE? That kind of thinking makes me angry.
Did Jefferson and Washington just LEAVE when they were angry about King George?
Did Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King just LEAVE when they were angry about how they were treated because of their race?
Did Gandhi just LEAVE when the British were oppressing his people in India?
I absolutely detest the "If you don't like it, you can just leave" attitude. I was FUCKING BORN HERE and I will use whatever means I can, to make this country better. Saying "Just leave" is giving up.
I read the writings of Smith, Paine, and Jefferson, and imagine what a wonderful country this could be without this gang of thugs who call themselves "government". Democracy, though, is inevitably doomed because, as de Tocqueville said, it only lasts until people "learn they can vote themselves largess from the public trough".
Take that away, and people can legitimately flourish.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
@hypocrisy; I apologize if I offended you. This subject just gets me really angry sometimes.... sigh
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
I guess to elaborate, I am not trying to say that you are "less knowing" at all. My point is that so many people in this world are simply raised to believe that government is good, that it is the provider, and that this is simply the way things should be.
It can be very difficult to get beyond that idea and look at the nature of government and democracy and "majority rule" without the huge mental legacy that has been pounded into our heads for all our lifetimes.
I don't blame you for this, I blame the system that "educated" you. :) I'm sorry if you inferred that I was trying to say you are ignorant or stupid. You at least take an interest in the subject, which is more than most people.
1 year, 2 months ago by Bishop
@Bishop: This would not be a question about guilt by association. We all have to criticize our sources, regardless if they are supported by you or "the system". That is the only way, not to be indoctrinated, either way.
1 year, 2 months ago by verify